Welcome to lesson 4 the final lesson on this subject! As you can see there is much in the Bible about this. I trust that the previous lesson was enlightening. As we go further you will see more truth on this vital subject.
Is It A Stumbling Block, Is It Profitable
Since alcoholic drinks are looked down upon in the word of God and since God desires all men to be free from this scourge would it not be reasonable to abstain from it for the reason that I don’t want to be a stumbling block to others? I think this is a good reason. It is a fact that alcoholics produce alcoholics because of the influence it brings. This scourge has gone from one generation to another. It continues because of its great influence upon the innocent. One drink and you could be an alcoholic for life.
Why would anyone want to put this stumbling block in front of another person. Especially those of your own household. The Bible is clear about stumbling blocks and actually says that if we put an occasion to stumble in front of another we are sinning before God. Here are some scriptures for your consideration.
“…woe to the man by whom the offence cometh! But woe unto him through whom they (offences) come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend (cause to stumble or fall) one of these little ones.” Luke 17:1, 2
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.” Romans 14:17 (KJV)
“We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. [2] Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. [3] For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.” Romans 15:1-3 (KJV)
“Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.” Romans 14:13 (KJV)
“But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.” 1Cor. 8:9 (KJV)
“But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.” 1 Cor. 8:12 (KJV)
Is Drinking Alcohol Convenient and Profitable?
The doctrine of expediency states that if it is not profitable to man then we should not indulge in its use. Consider these scriptures.
“neither eat flesh nor drink wine..” Rom. 14:14-21
“Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” Romans 14:19 (KJV)
“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.” Romans 14:21 (KJV)
Drinking of anything alcoholic is not profitable in any way. Why would we want to lead ourselves down a path of ruin and eternal damnation when the Lord has a better way of living for us?
Qualifications for Leadership.
Not only is alcohol forbidden for these reasons, according to the scriptures, but the Bible also declares that leaders in the church or anywhere for that matter are forbidden to use alcohol. Consider these scriptures.
“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; [3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;” 1Tim. 3:2-3 (KJV)
Let’s look at some of these words and their meanings.
Vigilant: Vigilant-The Greek is neephalion, which Donnegan’s Lexicon renders “abstemious; that abstains, especially from wine.” Hence, “sober, discreet, circumspect, cautious,” Robinson’s New Testament Lexicon defines the word, “Sober, temperate, especially in respect to wine.” In N.T., trop., “sober-minded, watchful, circumspect.” In the adjective form, the word occurs only in 1Tim. 3:2, from the verb necpho, which Donnegan defines, “To live abstemiously, to abstain from wine.” Green’s New Testament Lexicon, “To be sober, not intoxicated; metaphorically, to be vigilant, circumspect.”
Sober– The Greek is sophrona. Donnegan, “That is, of sound mind and good understanding; sound in intellect, not deranged; intelligent, discreet, prudent, or wise.” Greek, “Sound; of a sound mind, sane, staid, temperate, discreet, 1Tim 3:2; Tit. 1:8; 2:3. Modest, chaste, Tit. 2:5.” Macknight, “Sound mind; one who governs his passions, prudent.” Bloomfield, “Sober-minded, orderly.”
Not given to wine– The Greek is mee-paroinon: mee, a negative particle, not; paoinon, compounded of para, a preposition governing the genitive (of, from, on the part of), the dative (at, by, near, with), the accusative (together, with, to, towards, by, near, at, next to); and oinos, wine. Literally, not at, by, near, or with wine. This looks considerably like total abstinence. It applies equally to private habits and public conduct. Notice the careful steps of the progress. He must be neephalion, abstinent, sober in body, that he may be sophrona, sound in mind, and that his influence may be unimpaired, meeparion, not with or near wine. We find in this passage no countenance for the moderate use of intoxicating wine, but the reverse, the obligation to abstain totally.
Some Have Said That Drinking Alcohol was Recommended by Paul to Timothy.
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” 1 Tim. 5:23 (KJV)
First of all, alcohol causes stomach sickness and disease. Secondly, he was not talking of the poisonous alcohol that destroys but he is referring to the sweet calming good wine that is not alcoholic. No one with any honesty can say that alcohol is ever used as a medicine for an upset stomach. Thirdly why would Paul recommend something to this young preacher, who would possibly become a bishop, that would disqualify him from that office of leadership? He would not. He was writing to him about good wine. The good wine was and is today unfermented grape juice.
I trust that this study from the book Bible Wines has given you the truth. If you are battling with an alcohol problem or find that you have become a social drinker in any way I urge you to turn your life over to Jesus Christ. He can completely deliver you from this destructive force in your life. Historians, men of learned wisdom have all declared the timeless truth that alcohol is not given to us by God but is a manmade chemical that poisons and destroys everyone in its path. It has been declared as a substance that will also cause us to be lost for eternity with out God.
“Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Cor. 6:10 (KJV)
Conclusion
The truth is a very precious commodity in the kingdom of God and I hope in your life as well. After going through this study I trust that your eyes have been opened to see what God is saying to us as people. He desires a happy and blessed life for each of us. Alcohol only strips us of that happy and fulfilling life.
“The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10 (KJV)
Alcohol is the thief but Jesus is the giver. We cannot serve God and the things of this world at the same time. If you would like more scriptures and a further study into this I would like to make available to you the book that this study is based on “Bible Wines and the Laws of Fermentation” It is a rich source of information that will help you. The cost is a $7.00 donation and that will cover shipping.
If you would like help, more correspondence or if you would like to leave a prayer request just click here and let us know. We are willing to help in any way that we can. If you have any comments on the study we would love to hear from you. If you enjoyed it tell us and a friend. May God bless you and remember, the Truth shall make you free!
Sincerely,
Greg Wirths
Focus on Freedom
Focus On Freedom 
I really enjoyed the study on Bible wine I have just started teaching this subject, and I havefound your study very helpful. I would like to have the book Bible Wine, and the laws of fermentaion.Please tell me how I can get a copy, thank you so much.
I just went thru your lessons and it seems that most of your arguments are based on prior conclusions that you made that seem not to be correct. For example, you conclude that the OT forbids fermented wine. Then you take that argument and conclude that Jesus would not turn water into fermented wine since the scripture forbids it. What if your conclusion to the first argument was wrong. It is my belief that the OT forbids drunkenness, not wine drinking. Just as it forbids adultery and fornication, but NOT the sexual act itself, so long as it is within GOD’S confines of marriage. For many years i believed what you are teaching. However, over the past few years, in my studies, i have come to the conclusion that the scripture is clear that wine, in moderation, was ok. It is never ok to get drunk, that is clear in the scriptures. Also, I don’t think you need to even look into the process of fermentation when trying to know the truth on this subject. All we need is God’s word. If we look in I Cor, Paul did NOT chastise the believers for drinking wine when they were getting drunk during the Lord’s supper. Instead he just told them to eat and drink at home. We know the wine they were drinking was obviously NOT simple grape juice. They were getting drunk. We don’t need to know how they were fermenting their wine. We KNOW they were getting drunk from it, so it WAS fermented. If Paul held the same views you did on fermented wine, why didn’t he even mention ONE word regarding the drinking of fermented wine? If you were honest with the scriptures, I believe this one passage would change your mind on the subject.
Chris,
I am sincerely trying to be honest with the scriptures. It is obvious that there are two wines spoken of in them. One is fermented and the other is not. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach sake. It is well known that feremented wine can cause stomach problems even including cancer. It also speaks of the wine in Revelation as the wine of her fornication and that she has become drunken on it. If fermented wine has the ability to lead us to destruction for eternity (1 Cor. 6:10 (KJV) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.) why would anyone want to get close to it? In fact the scriptures teach us to avoid the appearance of evil. (1 Thes. 5:22 (KJV) Abstain from all appearance of evil.) I appreciate your comments although I heartily disagree. I would like to send you the book “Bible Wines” by William Patton. This little book is full of scripture. More than my study. Just send me a note and I will gladly send you a copy for free, postage paid. Thanks again for taking the time to go through the lessons. Hope to hear from you soon.
Dear Author focusonfreedom.wordpress.com !
Earlier I thought differently, many thanks for the help in this question.
I just now noticed your reply from September. Sorry for this late reply. The word “wine” in I Timothy refers to fermented wine. There may be studies that conclude drinking to be harmful to one’s stomach, but I am sure you would agree that the scriptures are above any man’s “study” on any subject. I must then assume that the stomach problems caused by drinking would occur in those who do not drink in moderation. Just as I do not believe the studies that say that evolution is a fact, or that homosexuality is caused by something in the genes. Even if the “evidence” appears strong, I must believe the scriptures… not man’s judgment.
Why should we stretch I Cor. 6:10 to say more than it does. Just because it says “drunkards” will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, does not give us the right to conclude that we should stay away from wine since it may possibly lead to drunkenness. In fact, you left out a the versed leading up to verse 10 which, if we use your reasoning, would require you to never have any more intimate relations with your wife.
“Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”)
Since the sexual act may lead someone into wanting a relationship outside of marriage, you should “abstain for all appearance of evil” and not have such relations with your wife. To go further with such reasoning: Since the covetous will not enter into heaven, then we should not have things at all. Don’t keep any money… give all of it away, so you will not be tempted to become covetous. Also, the scripture condemns gluttony. Therefore since eating may lead to gluttony, should we not eat?
I believe we do a disservice to the cause of Christ when we claim to be Bible believers, but when the truth is staring us straight in the face, we use every conceivable shaky and even man-made argument to prove our own personal belief, even when it is contrary to scripture. I believe that this is no different than the Pharisees. They taught their own opinions as if they were God’s commands.
There is another scripture I think is conclusive on this subject. Jesus himself said: “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.”
Did they call him a winebibber because he drank grape juice? No. It was because he drank wine. They obviously were around Jesus enough to see him drink wine, and therefore they made such a statement.
Also, could you specifically answer the issue that I brought up in my first post regarding Paul’s rebuke to the Corinthians for misusing the Lord’s table? They were getting drunk at the Lord’s supper, yet not once did Paul refer to their drinking fermented wine as being a sin. Why not? If drinking fermented wine is as bad as you are teaching it to be, why didn’t Paul teach it the way you are?
I don’t want to sound combative, but I have been in legalistic churches for 30 years of my life that taught this subject as well as many others which had absolutely no scriptural basis. Instead they were inventions of man. I truly hope this makes you search your own heart. Not to start drinking wine. But instead to quit carrying on other men’s false teachings which twist the scriptures, just as the Pharisees did in Jesus’ day.
Thank you for your time.
Chris,
I sincerely thank you for your comments. I do however disagree with your premise on several fronts. First, moderation is taught in scripture as something we should practive as New Testament Christians. Moderation does not give us the liberty to partake of things that can and often do lead us to sin and evil. Sexuality within the bounds of marriage has been given to us by God as proper and right. Nowhere did I assume or imply that we should not have sex in marriage because it could lead us to sexual sins. Even you must admit that this is pretty far out there. Next is the scripture in Matt. 11:18,19. It is obvious to the honest heart that Jesus was speaking about the different ministries of John and himself. John did not come “eating and drinking” meaning that John was not a social person and Jesus on the other hand was a social person going to weddings and social functions “eating and drinking”. It is kind of odd how you condemn the Pharisees twice but when they said Jesus was drinking alcoholic wine you believe them. Double standard there. Also if they were right about it then they were right about John having a devil. Neither of which were true. The Pharisees were trying to discredit both John and Jesus by using something that was obviously wrong, demon possesion and drinking alcoholic wine. In 1Cor. 11:18-22 Paul is talking about communion. The Corinthian church had gone to heresies verse 19 and there were divisions. Some thought that the Lord’s supper was to be eaten and drunk in the church like a big party. They brought in much food and alcoholic drink into the church. Paul taught them that this was not right. Paul, being a Jew knew that in the feast of Passover (which was the Lords supper) that there was to be no yeast or leaven in this feast. The reason being that leaven or yeast was a picture of sin. Yeast corrupts and putrifies just like sin. There is debate in many Christian circles about using grape juice or fermented wine for communion. Based on the body of scripture I feel that it is unfermented of course. Paul was not adressing the use of wine in every day life he was simply adressing communion. If you are interested in more study on the subject I would love to give you a free copy of “Bible Wines” written by a preacher in the late 1800’s. Itis very interesting and very thorough.
Sincerely,
Greg WIrths
One more thing regarding the study on wine and stomach cancer. I did a quick Google search and found this link:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_n9_v13/ai_15855197/
This study said that there could POTENTIALLY be a link between HEAVY drinking and stomach cancer, BUT even that was inconclusive.
I think the lesson here is to believe ONLY the Word of God and not mans devices. When we are attempting to convince someone of the truth on any subject, we should not try to convince them with anything but Bible. I believe, when we do interject other “proofs”, it is evidence that we do not have truth behind our argument.
Thanks.
I use to live a lifestyle of drinking on the weekends, and nothing good ever came of it. 2 years ago one of my best friends son was killed by a drunk driver. Drinking also caused me severe heartburn, not my idea of something being good for the stomach. So when I came to personally know my Savior this was an area He worked on in my heart and it wasn’t because a man told me not to drink, God revealed that to me in His word because I asked Him too, I asked Him to reveal my motives and my heart. None of us knows who we might cause to stumble, and therefore because of that I am abstaining as a believer. Also Chris it’s true that God’s word has the final say, but i don’t know about you but i don’t speak hebrew, greek or arabic so I had to do some study outside of God’s word to find out what certain words meant back then, it’s helped alot with understanding the context of scripture. I found it quite interesting that the definition of wine in the dictionaries have changed over time…hmmmm I wonder who was behind that. In an 1828 dictionary wine was defined as both fermented and unfermented, now when you look in todays dictionary it always refers to fermented…funny how things change, Satan is sure at work deceiving. God speaks about a time when even the elect will be deceived, my prayer is that we Christians armour ourselves with knowledge and His word and sometimes Chris we need to go back into history to find it. May Jesus reveal all that you ask Him to do. My Jesus would never cause a person to stumble into sin, he came to set us free from sins bondage and to save us from eternal damnation. Be careful the Devil is clever and has had many years to perfect his deceptive schemes. I guess a good question to ask yourself is why do you need to drink any alcohol. Can’t we be happy drinking water or something non alcoholic that taste great. Just my thoughts. God bless you all.
Well, said! I feel the same as you do. Why do we need something other than Jesus to help us through our troubles? Thanks for the positive comment.
Greg
This is my first visit here, but I will be back soon, because I really like the way you are writing, it is so simple and honest
I didn’t understand the concluding part of your article, could you please explain it more?
I’m not sure why you didn’t understand the conclusion of this lesson. If you would like to study it further I would like to recommend the book “Bible Wines and the Laws of Fermentation” by William Patton. He goes further into the scriptural details of this subject. Rest assured though the Bible speaks of two wines, one alcoholic and the other non alcoholic. I am preparing more remarks on another comment so kepp posted. Also I would love to have you sign up for the free newsletter. Thanks
Greg
Isaiah 28:7 (KJV)
(28:7) But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment
Leviticus 10:8-9 (KJV)
(10:8) And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, (10:9) Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
i believe that drinking fermented wine is prohibited by the word of God. ….and the evidence thereof is clearly seen, and one of the main problem is addiction to it [Proverbs 23:29-35 (KJV)
(23:29) Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? (23:30) They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (23:31) Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. (23:32) At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. (23:33) Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. (23:34) Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. (23:35) They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. ]. That why the scriptures teaches us Ephesians 5:18 (KJV)
(5:18) And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
I Praise God for this site…
Thanks so much!
Context is such a wonderful thing, when it works to our favor. Often times non Christians attempt to prove a point by quoting a verse or part of one as biblical proof of their point. It is the believer that then has to point out to them that the phrase in taken in context does not have the same meaning. The problem is that many times well meaning Christians do the same thing.
For one, Edilberto Mendoza quotes:
Leviticus 10:8-9 (KJV)
(10:8) And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, (10:9) Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
and therefore concludes “i believe that drinking fermented wine is prohibited by the word of God.” I will point your attention to the word “when” in verse 9. The Lord did not say do not drink wine or strong drink at all, He only said they should not drink it WHEN going into the tabernacle. One could make the argument here that this verse alone condones strong drink as well as wine, but I will leave that for another discussion.
Another thing that I noticed is that the only scriptures that are given are ones that can be ‘construed’ as prohibiting alcohol. It is also said that ‘new wine’ was not alcoholic. That is a curious thing. As was said before, the true answers can be found in the Bible alone without needing to rely on ‘studies’. I take you to the book of Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 14:23
Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always.(NIV)
Now, that verse by itself doesn’t give way to any kind of definition of what new wine is, but let us look just a bit further, a mere 3 verses later.
Deuteronomy 14:26
Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice. (NIV)
Notice that it says ‘wine or OTHER fermented drink’. How could one conclude that wine as referred to here was not fermented?
I agree that anything in excess is wrong. The bible even refers to that often.
Proverbs 23:20
Do not join those who drink much wine or gorge themselves on meat,
It was also stated that ‘new wine’ was the best. If that were so, then how does this relate:
Isaiah 25:6
On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine – the best of meats and the finest of wines. (aged wine? hmm.)
One last note. Often Paul’s words to Timothy are used both for and against the notion of alcohol. This deserves a closer look.
1 Timothy 3:8
In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. (again that silly little word ‘much’ here)
1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Notice the word ‘little’ here? Paul did not tell Timothy to get drunk, he simply told him to drink a little wine. Today we use cough syrup to control a cough that often has some alcohol in it, BECAUSE of it’s benefits. No one suggests you get drunk on it.
I could go on but this response has become quite long already. I hope these statements bring some balance to what seems to be a one sided debate.
Thanks
Danny,
I am so sorry I haven’t responded sooner, it seems like so many things have come up. I would like to give you a copy of William PAttons book, “Bible Wines and the Laws of Fermentation” for your personal library if you don’t have one. One requirement though, you must read it with an open mind to the scriptures. You can email me at my personal adress with your adress and I will send it free of charge postage paid. Deal?
Greg
“It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:”Proverbs 31:4
“And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”Revelation 1:6
Some advice from a kings mother and a great Bible principle.
God’s king’s do not drink wine “NOR” strong drink.
Great scripture! Thanks for visiting and I hope you will pass it along to your friends.
Greg
It is a dangerous thing to place ones opinion over Gods Word. The word of God is clear that He gave us wine to enjoy. However he does condemn drunkenness. You may be of the opinion that God condemns drinking. But you can not read the scriptures honestly and come to that conclusion. Most of your arguments use circular reasoning. YOU make state your opinion that drinking is wrong and then based on your incorrect assumption you interpret verses incorrectly from your human reasoning perspective. You quote Romans where it says that it is “good neither to eat flesh or drink wine…”. Do you also conclude from this that we should not eat meat? You choose to quote the scripture that, when taken out of context, makes your point. Because God condemns formication, do you conclude from that, that He condems the physical relationship within marriage? Of course not. You are treading on dangerous ground by teaching the traditions of man as if they are the commandments of God.
Chris Kolker,
Alcohol has destroyed so many lives. One in every ten person will become an alcoholic just from the first drink and will never get to heaven according to Galatians 5:21. In my mind God is already setting some people up to fail by allowing us to drink alcohol. Deuteronomy 29: 5 ,6 shows clearly that the Lord did not give the Israelites any alcohol to drink so that they may know that He is the true God. God also made the provision for a delayed tithe if one could not return his tithe on time in Deuteronomy 14:26. The aged wine and the lamb were to be bought as a sign that the tithe was late and the wine was to be poured out beside the altar and not taken internally. Notice the text said you may eat before the Lord, it did not say you may DRINK. I have a question that I would like you to answer. How do I know what my limit is? If it is my first time drinking, what would be moderate for me? I would probably have to get drunk (tipsy) first (which is a sin) before i know what my limit is. In addition, please don’t refer to sex within marriage as an argument to support drinking alcohol. That is not even in the same context and no one is challenging the biblical view of sex within marriage. If you also look at Daniel 1:8 you will see where Daniel, living in Babylon at the time, refused to defile himself with the King’s food and wine because they were contrary to the Word of God. Jesus never drank alcoholic wine. When He was on the cross and the soldiers were giving HIm vinegar mixed with gall (an alcoholic mixture) to ease HIs pain He refused it. (Matthew 27:34). Jesus was in excrutiating pain and that mixture would no doubt have eased HIs pain but He refused it because He did not want to give anyone license to say they could drink it. Habakkuk 2:15 pronounes a woe on anyone who gives his neighbour alcohol. That woe would have to be on Jesus if i am to believe your assumption that He gave the guests at the wedding alcohol to drink. Please re study the Bible’s view on alcohol. God is very direct and He would not allow us to destroy our bodies with alcohol. Our bodies are temples and we ought not to put anything into our temples.
Sorry the last sentence should read: We ought not to put any and every thing in our temples.
Lisa. If you let only the Bible be your guide, then you cannot come to the conclusions you do. However, you insert your opinion. You say that alcohol has ruined so many lives, You are wrong! Just as wrong as those who say that “guns kill”. Guns don’t kill, people kill. Alcohol doesn’t kill, drunkenness does. The Bible says do not be DRUNK with wine. If God felt the way you did, He would have said “Do not DRINK wine.” Wouldn’t you say there is a big difference? The problem is that you do not take God’s Word alone as your answer. Galatians is not giving a litmus test on who goes to heaven, He is telling us what types of sins are evidence that a person is not His child. There is a big difference. Jesus said a good tree CANNOT bring forth bad fruit and a bad tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit. By their fruits we shall know them. You say that Deut 29:5 and 6 indicate that Israel did not drink alcohol that they may know that He is the true God. One thing you left out of the text is “bread”. They did not eat bread either. So are you saying bread is wrong or are you just leaving that out to prove your point, in spite of what the Scripture says? This is not saying that they never ate bread or drank alcohol, but must mean something than what you are concluding. How do you read Deut 14:26 to say that they poured it out as an offering? Please explain what you mean. The Bible reads “And thou shalt bestow that money for whatever you desire… for wine or strong drink… and thou shalt eat it there before the Lord they God, and thou shalt rejoice…” There’s nothing there about pouring it out. He’s not talking about an offering, he says that they can buy whatever their soul DESIRES. What about Jesus in Luke 5:39? He said that no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says the old is better”. Old wine here is fermented. In John 2:9-10 where Jesus turned water into wine, they said that the bridegroom kept the best until last. Therefore, in Jesus’ words that the oldest is best, and the fact that Jesus made the best wine for last, therefore Jesus made fermented wine. Please study the Jewish history. You will see that they always drank fermented wine in their wedding ceremonies, and still do to this day. It’s not grape juice. Your limit or my limit is not the point. Here again, we must rely only upon the Bible. It says “be not drunk within wine”. That is the answer. I drink wine and I don’t get drunk. Before I knew the Lord, I would drink IN ORDER TO GET DRUNK. I don’t do that. Sex within marriage is an accurate comparison because the Bible says that sex outside marriage is wrong. There are some people who say that sex is a sin. They are wrong, just as those who say drinking any alcohol is wrong. Just because some people mis-interpret the scripture to say that any and all drinking of alcohol is wrong, does not mean it is. Just because God condemns drunkenness, does not he condemns drinking alcohol. In other words, there is a proper way to drink fermented wine… that is to NOT get drunk. And there is a way to enjoy the sexual relationship, and that is within marriage. Regarding Jesus on the cross. You say he refused the vinegar because he didn’t want to give anyone license to sin by drinking wine. Where do you get that? Why don’t you let the scripture interpret the scripture? Where, in Matt 27, does it give such an explanation? Here again you are inserting your opinion and putting your opinion and laws over God’s own Word. By the way, it was not wine, it was vinegar. I feel, the more Biblical interpretation of his refusal to drink the vinegar was because he was suffering for our sin and did not want to ease that suffering. You quote Hab 2:15. Do you care to give the full context or are you happy to quote it out of context to prove your point? If we read the full context is says “Woe to him who gives his neighbor to drink to make them drunk in order to see their nakedness.” I feel that you are allowing your opinion to lead you to change God’s Word to fit your views. I will give you the same encouragement as you offered to me. Please restudy the Bible’s view on alcohol, BUT please do NOT alter it to meet your views.
Hi Chris,
Before I begin to answer I would like to set the tone of this response and the previous one. I don’t want you to be offended nor do I want this to be argumentative in any way. I am just expecting a discussion and a presentation based on biblical facts. I am also not presenting my opinion nor do i wish to do so because I have nothing to gain personally from doing that. I believe there are genuine persons who have read and have misunderstood what the bible says hence the reason for so many different denominations and the need for careful and prayerful study. With that being said, let me begin and hopefully I address all the points you have made.
I believe the best way to study a topic is to look at all the scriptures rrelating to the topic and believe also that the bible cannot contradict itself. The bible uses wine in two different ways – fermented and unfermented. When we read the bible and come across the word wine (Greek is Oinos or Oinis) we have to find out which one (fermented or unfermented) it is referring to. We know from beginning to end in scripture God has a stance on certain things and that will never change (eg fornication is wrong in the old and new testaments) . Heb 13:8 says Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. So we can take it that God does not change. I don’t know if this blog will permit me to go in as much detail as i would like to but i will try. As i had said in my previous response when we are studying a topic we have to look at the Greek or Hebrew word to get the best meaning of the scripture as translations to english have not conveyed some of the meanings in the best way. For example in Ephesians 5:18 the Hebrew word translated as “in excess” is asotia which actually means which is debauchery. So the text would actually read “Be not drunk with wine in which is debauchery but be filled with the Spirit”. The hewbrew word used here for wine is yayin which means fermented wine. Other texts that use yayin are as follows: Proverbs 20:1, Hosea 4:11, Daniel 1:8, Habakkuk 2:5, among others. There are other texts such as Matthew 24:49, Daniel 5:1,2, Exodus 32:6 and others that use hebrew words such as shathah, shethah and other words that denote being defiled and also associates drinking wine with spiritual harlotry (idol worship) as in Exodus 32:6. The vinegar offered to Jesus is sometimes referred to as wine of vinegar (numbers 6:3) and was related based on the Hebrew meaning to Titus 1:15 which denotes it being defiled. Other references relate to backsliding and God’s wrath being mingled and poured out upon the wicked (psalm 75:8). There are different Hebrew and Greek words but a good concordance will show you the texts that are similar in meaning whether they refer to wine or not. Again the scripture in Deuteronomy relating to the tithe gives the proper meaning if you read from a few verses up. Whatever your soul lusteth after does not mean whatever you want to eat or drink. God is very specific and the people knew what they could and could not offer to God. So it is like me giving someone a list of ten things that i would want for a gift and i can say whatever you want to buy on that list is fine. It is the same thing. God does not accept anything that we feel pleased to give Him (Leviticus 10:1-2).
I am sorry to have to stop here for now but I hope that i have done some justice to your response by addressing most of what you wrote. Have a good day.
Lisa, I am not trying to be argumentative either. I am only trying to help you to see that your handling of the scripture is not right. Paul said we are to “rightly divide the word of truth”. Whether scripture lines up with your point of view on an issue or not, we must be honest with the scriptures. You can not quote portions of scriptures, while leaving out sections that don’t support your view. Even if we assumed that your view was correct, you do not need to mishandle the scripture. Neither should you attempt to assign your words to Jesus. When you say that the reason Jesus didn’t take the vinegar while on the cross was “because He did not want to give anyone license to say they could drink it.” you are wrongly dividing the word of truth. The scripture never says why he refused it, so we have no authority to ascribe a reason ourselves. However, we can say, based on what we know about the cross, that most likely he refused because he was bearing the full suffering and pain of our sin on the cross. Notice, I did not claim this as fact, but I said “most likely”. My real concern is not the issue of wine. I most likely will never change your opinion, and you will definitely not change mine (I held your opinion for years, until I really got honest with interpreting the scriptures). My main concern is how we handle the scriptures and make bogus arguments by mishandling them.
Lisa, I would like you to explain a few passages. In Matt 11:18,19 Jesus said that John the baptist came neither eating or drinking and they say he has a devil. Does this mean he fasted and never drank anything his entire life? Obviously not. He refrained only from fermented drink (alcohol). We can conclude here, that when Jesus uses the word “drinking” he refers to drinking alcohol. So, if we are to properly interpret Jesus’ own words here, we must say that verse 19 also refers to fermented drink. He himself claimed “The son of man came eating and drinking”. You can not twist Jesus’ words to say anything else. This was his claim. Now the response of the Jews was to take his drinking of wine and claim he was a drunkard. Now that would have been a sin because the scripture says drunkenness is a sin. Simply drinking wine was not a sin, but to go into drunkenness was, and that is why they did not simply say “Look a glutton and a wine drinker”. They called him a winebibber because drinking wine was not the sin, but getting drunk was.
In 1 Cor 11:17-22 Paul rebukes the Corinthians for the way some were excluding others in the Lord’s supper. In these verses, Paul mentions that some were getting drunk. Now let’s honestly divide the word of truth. If some were getting drunk, we must assume that they were drinking fermented wine. Therefore, if they were drinking fermented wine, and if Paul held your view on wine, why didn’t he rebuke their drinking of fermented wine? You definitely would have if you were writing this letter, but Paul did not. Why? Because he did not hold your view. In fact, he told them “don’t you have houses to eat and drink in?” If the scriptures forbade wine as you do, Paul would have been bound to scold them about drinking fermented wine. He doesn’t even mention that. Why? Because he didn’t hold your view, because the scriptures do not hold your view.
Please offer another explanation for these two scriptures in case I am missing something here. But please do not say “well Jesus would not drink fermented wine because it would be a contradiction of commands in the OT.” That avoids the obvious in these scriptures. You can’t deny the truth in one portion of scripture just because you “think” the OT says something else. What I propose to you is that your interpretation of the OT is incorrect. I could just as easily say to you, when you show me an OT scripture that you think forbids fermented wine, “well your interpretation of that is not correct because Jesus drank fermented wine and Paul did not forbid it when rebuking the Corinthians”. Let’s allow each scripture to stand on it’s own.
Also, here again, when you take Exodus 32:6 to make a claim that wine is a sign of spiritual harlotry, this shows that you are not honestly dividing the word of truth. You are putting your own words into the scripture. That is dangerous. Please show me where these verses specifically say that wine is associated with spiritual harlotry. Wouldn’t you imagine that they were getting drunk and not just simply drinking wine? Also, would you not then have to say that eating is also a sign of spiritual harlotry? You conveniently left that part of the verse out. It says “the people sat down to eat and drink”. This is evidence that you are not honestly dividing the word of truth.
Regarding Daniel: Daniel would not corrupt himself with the KING’S wine. That is the key. It does NOT say that he refused wine alone. Just as Paul speaks of eating meats offered to idols. He says that the meat is ok to eat UNLESS there is a weaker brother who may think that you are partaking in the offering to idols. That is the same reason Daniel refused. Not because it was wine, but because it was the KING’S wine.
Also, in Eph 5:18, I agree with you. We should not be drunk with wine. However, it says nothing about just drinking wine. There is a huge difference, which you do not seem to want to see.
Hi Chris,
Thank you for your response. Please do not accuse me of not being honest when relating to the scriptures. As i said in my previous response I have nothing to gain. As a matter of fact I believe my quality of life is better without alcohol. Over time it degrades the cells in your brain and it degrades your organs over time as well.
John the Baptist refrained from drinking unfermented grape wine (Luke 1 vs 15) as well as fermented wine from the grape under special direction to his mother before his birth. As I said before you have to go back to the greek and/or hebrew language. When the bible uses the word wine in english it could be referring to both not just fermented wine so to assume that Jesus was talking about fermented wine is incorrect. Just look at the scriptures I put in my last response in the greek/hebrew language and it will give a clearer understanding. Paul actually neither condoned nor rebuked the drinking. He didn’t say whether or not he was for or against in that scripture as he was dealing with the issue of the communion so it doesn’t support your view or mine.
Finally you are also only quoting portions of scripture. I have no problem if you read the whole chapter. Please go right ahead and do so. I have quoted numerous scriptures from both old and new testament along with greek/hebrew language. None of it is my opinion. Just taking the scripture as it says. Have a good day
Lisa
Excellent study from William Patton’s book Bible Wines. I purchased 2 copies from Challenge Press in 2002. Loaned one to my former pastor and never did get it back. I refer to my other copy quite often. IMHO, this book is the BEST one which deals with the topic of Christians and alcohol. Thank you for the great lessons on Bible wines Bro. Greg!
God bless
Thanks for the comment and your quest for truth. God will always lead the hungry heart to the truth. I have copies of Pattons book if you would need some they are free.
Blessings
Greg
Chris, Although I appreciate your love for the Word of God and the tenor of your arguments, I do not understand why you go to such lengths encouraging people to drink in moderation. Do you know of anyone who has ever been hurt by being a tee totaler? Do you know of any harm that comes to people for abstaining from alcohol completely? I’m 76 yo and I certainly do not know of anyone like that. Although I do know of many, some in my own family, who have been hurt and hurt badly for trying to go the moderation route. You speak of believing the Scriptures and yet you deny the many scriptures which have been brought to your attention. I pray that you and your family will never be hurt by the use of ETOH. In His service, bw
Amen!
Greg
I do not encourage drinking to get drunk, which is what the Bible teaches against. What I do encourage is the proper interpretation of the Word of God, minus my own personal persuasions. Because people have been hurt by the misuse of alcohol does not give us license to disregard Biblical truth and try to make some sort of Biblical argument against it’s proper use when none exists. If the Bible were against it, I would be against it. However, it is clear that the Bible is against it’s misuse, not it’s use.
Buddy, in addition to my previous reply, I do not know anyone who has been hurt by being a teetotaler, but being a teetotaler is a personal decision, and not yours or mine to make for someone else. I do not know anyone who has been hurt by abstaining, but we are not talking about personal experiences here. We are talking about what is Biblical or not Biblical. This is NOT required in the Bible. Just as it is not required for all to be eunuchs, but God calls some to be such. While adultery and fornication are wrong, the physical act is not wrong when done in the confines of marriage, which is Biblical. While some churches have implied that the act itself is somehow taboo, the Bible teaches that it is good so far as it is within the confines of marriage. It is harmful any other way, just as alcohol is harmful if it leads to drunkenness. So just because some misuse it to their own hurt, it does not give us license to get our personal experiences and feelings into the argument. Let the Bible alone be our guide. I could ask you if you’ve ever known anyone that was ever hurt by abstaining from ever having physical relations with another person. The answer would also be “no”. But that would not mean that the Bible teaches that everyone should abstain from Biblical physical relationships.